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andyb
United Kingdom
367 Posts |
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Mooresy
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2013 : 11:38:58
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Looks fairly straight and not far from me (Warrington). Looking at the pictures, the wing tips are starting to go and the rear wings behind the back wheels. They have obviously been repaired / filled before as there are the tell-tail signs of lifting / expanding filler (well, being pushed off by the oxidizing metal behind).
This car has lots of pics on the internet of it in slightly better days and it is even in the gallery on this site so I presume its a member who owns it ? Has anyone seen this car recently ?
Looks a good one to me (price dependent of course). I'd say, what, current practical classics guide price of a condition 2 ish ?
Will attempt to view it this this week / weekend. |
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arrocuda
United Kingdom
501 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2013 : 12:54:22
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Only thing I don't like about this car is the webasto roof. I bought a Jag XJ6 coupe with one of these many moons ago when I was going through a 'mad' phase  ... and although it wasn't letting water into the car, it obviously had a sealing problem somewhere as water was getting trapped under the vinyl surrounding the frame of the sunroof.
Not suggesting this car has a problem, but definitely something to keep in mind when you go to take a look at it.
Building the 'Mark II' fastback Rapier ('Arrocuda'). |
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JPSH120
United Kingdom
1183 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2013 : 13:05:10
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This one has changed hands several times in the last few years and no doubt is/was known to the club.
It looks in fair condition but interesting to know what the reserve is...
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Mooresy
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2013 : 10:05:49
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quote:
Originally posted by arrocuda
Only thing I don't like about this car is the webasto roof. I bought a Jag XJ6 coupe with one of these many moons ago when I was going through a 'mad' phase ... and although it wasn't letting water into the car, it obviously had a sealing problem somewhere as water was getting trapped under the vinyl surrounding the frame of the sunroof.
Not suggesting this car has a problem, but definitely something to keep in mind when you go to take a look at it.
Building the 'Mark II' fastback Rapier ('Arrocuda').
Quite, Given the choice I would have a brand new webasto or not at-all. Certainly not one approaching 40 years old. The roof could be the make or break of this one. I believe they are very expensive to repair and all the specialists appear to be 'down south'. But, if its good, Its good as they say. Anyone have any ideas on a fair price for this one ? |
Edited by - Mooresy on 02 Jul 2013 11:36:58 |
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Stig
United Kingdom
34 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2013 : 19:18:24
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looks like the classic car market might be on the move up from the variety of cars i have been watching of late. This is good news for current owners of good Rapiers and similar aged cars if they are looking to move on to new projects. This car seems to be no exception with a £2450 bid still not reaching the sellers reserve. I don't like the look of the curl on the front/side of wings suggesting Mr Isopon is onboard in a big way. All well and good if the car is going to sell at a price making it viable to spend money on. This car restoration would have to be considered a labour of love and something you will keep for some considerable time. I intend to move on to another car brand I have loved and lost
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Mooresy
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 00:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Stig
looks like the classic car market might be on the move up from the variety of cars i have been watching of late. This is good news for current owners of good Rapiers and similar aged cars if they are looking to move on to new projects. This car seems to be no exception with a £2450 bid still not reaching the sellers reserve. I don't like the look of the curl on the front/side of wings suggesting Mr Isopon is onboard in a big way. All well and good if the car is going to sell at a price making it viable to spend money on. This car restoration would have to be considered a labour of love and something you will keep for some considerable time. I intend to move on to another car brand I have loved and lost
Sorry to hear you are moving on Stig, What other car / make do you have in-mind ? I'm not just in the market for a rapier (although, like your-self I do have a soft spot for them). I am also looking for a Karmann Ghia, preferably a Type 34 Razor. I have looked at a couple of Type 1's but they were rotten and very expensive. You think Rapiers are rusty, try Karmann Ghia's. Mind you,there are a lot more of them to go at. Around 800 currently on the road and sorn'd compared to, what, 21 Rapier H120's ? Must admit though, I can't be doing with that odd VW lot, It's all Kowabunga, flip-flops and ear grommets. I have also been looking at Triumph Stags, Lots of seemingly decent ones around. I disagree that the classic market is on the up. The asking prices are, but the actual sales are down. I see cars sitting on the market for months sometimes years. When you think they have sold, they just appear again a few months later.
Pity we both missed this one
http://www.swva.co.uk/1976-sunbeam-rapier-h-120/ |
Edited by - Mooresy on 03 Jul 2013 09:40:30 |
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arrocuda
United Kingdom
501 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 10:00:51
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The one that SWVA sold was under priced if the description was accurate. For one that was in a genuine condition with good paint and interior you would be doing well to pick it up for less than £3k. Beyond this it all depends on the detail. If it was a one owner with less than 20k miles and all the paperwork to prove it, you would probably be looking for twice that amount.
The car on ebay is probably going to need several hundred pounds spending on it to bring it back to 'A1' condition so it's probably already been bid to roughly what it's worth. When I say that these cars will never be worth a lot of money, I don't regard 5 - 6k to be a lot of money. I've been driving around in old cars for about 20 years now and although I've never made any money on them when you take into account what I've spent, I've never really lost anything either. So you could say that my hobby has provided me with free motoring.
Meanwhile my partner..... who insists on driving modern cars, has probably paid on average about £1k a year for the privilege in depreciation alone, and what can you get in the way of a modern car for 5 - 6k? Something with all the styling charm and character of a shopping trolley maybe!
Building the 'Mark II' fastback Rapier ('Arrocuda'). |
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arrocuda
United Kingdom
501 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 10:53:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Mooresy
Must admit though, I can't be doing with that odd VW lot, It's all Kowabunga, flip-flops and ear grommets.
Since I've been using this Audi GT coupe as a beater I've been frequenting the 'virtual dub world' for the usual stuff and also find them to be a bit of a clique bunch. The strange thing is that they actually believe in all that vorsprung durch tecnik stuff as though dubs are a superior car to any other make. Don't get me wrong they are ok.... but no better, no worse than any of the other major manufacturers products and certainly nothing to get over excited about in the styling department.
All that Kowabunga stuff is ok if you live in Southern California but don't cut much ice up here in Burnley!
Building the 'Mark II' fastback Rapier ('Arrocuda'). |
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Mooresy
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 22:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by arrocuda
quote:
Originally posted by Mooresy
Must admit though, I can't be doing with that odd VW lot, It's all Kowabunga, flip-flops and ear grommets.
Since I've been using this Audi GT coupe as a beater I've been frequenting the 'virtual dub world' for the usual stuff and also find them to be a bit of a clique bunch. The strange thing is that they actually believe in all that vorsprung durch tecnik stuff as though dubs are a superior car to any other make. Don't get me wrong they are ok.... but no better, no worse than any of the other major manufacturers products and certainly nothing to get over excited about in the styling department.
All that Kowabunga stuff is ok if you live in Southern California but don't cut much ice up here in Burnley!
Building the 'Mark II' fastback Rapier ('Arrocuda').
A clique bunch is probably the right term 'Dude' As I mentioned, I am also (maybe) after a VW Karmann Ghia (Had one of these years ago as well). So I too have been frequenting 'VolksZone' Its right what you say. Who on earth can get exited about a 10 year old 'Euro-box' Probably in the most boring car colour known to man... Silver (By the way, Have our Teutonic friends forgot what colour is ?) Anyway, I am going to look at said Rapier tomorrow (Thurs). From what I can see it needs wing tips and lower rear wing repairs to both sides. Oh, and after all that cutting and welding It'll need a Re-spray. Now, the repair panels alone from 'Alpine' cost a shade under £500 inc VAT if it only wants repairs to these area's I suspect it will need some repair to the front wings along the 'A' post vertical edge. It is probably (like you say) on its money as it could probably swallow-up in the region of £1500 to £2000 to sort it. We'll see... |
Edited by - Mooresy on 03 Jul 2013 22:54:36 |
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arrocuda
United Kingdom
501 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 09:30:29
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TBH, if we are talking full respray then it's already done its money. For a professional spray job you are looking at the best part of a grand and that doesn't include the prepping.
Add to that the cost of the repair panels and all the bits and pieces and all of a sudden it becomes a relatively expensive car and that assumes you are doing all the bodywork yourself at no cost.
Let us know how you get on with the viewing. Be interesting to see how this pans out.
Building the 'Mark II' fastback Rapier ('Arrocuda'). |
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Stig
United Kingdom
34 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 13:20:29
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| Hi all and Hi Moresy. I am moving from a early 70s car (rapier) to a early 80s Ford which I am viewing Saturday. The car is solid, just sailed a MOT and looks fantastic. I know Ford is a bit more main stream, but parts are easier to acquire and this particular car has no hidden agenda with rust with hopefully years of life ahead of it. saying all this i have to actually see the car in the flesh which i will be doing this Saturday. |
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Mooresy
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 23:19:33
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Hello All,
Viewed the above mentioned H120 today. I'm afraid it needs a lot of bodywork to bring up-to standard. Its a complete car that is generally sound but unfortunately needs a complete body restoration.
Good points:-
Complete car. all badges and details present. Tidy engine bay. seemed a good runner (although I didn't pursue this). Solid structure(inner wings floor etc). Its had new sills inner and outer and welding to the rear arches (usual places). MOTd amd drivable. Very good door panels, clean as a whistle on the underside and the door skin lip. Boot and bonnet perfect no rusting to the lower lip of the boot. Tidy interior with no noticeable damage to the seats etc. Presentable at 25 feet.
Bad points:-
Bodywork and paintwork. wing tips rusted and filler lifting. Front wings blistering, lifting filler and blistering down the back edge adjacent to the doors. Lifting / blistering filler to the lower rear wings both before and after the wheel arches. Filler in the rear arches / lip. Drivers front wing has been replaced at some stage (with a steel wing) but badly fitted with the lip inside looking messy with a couple of 10mm bolts at either end. The rear valance has a good bit of filler in it. Chromework was aged and ideally would need attention. but ok for the time being. All rubber work very cracked and perished. Webasto sunroof, although in good-nick it didn't appear to sit flush with the roof when closed and was a bit messy on the inside with black paint on the Webasto roof lining. The roof of the car itself is not covered in vinyl (as the pictures may suggest) it is actually hand painted in matt-black paint with evidence of filler around the roof gutters and repairs to the bright trim in the gutters.
The vendor has owned the car for around 4 years and never used it. It was bought from someone in Crewe Cheshire. The Vendor (Gary) recons that the photo's on this site are around 10 years old.
Nice chap selling it. Honest and not pushy.
Summary :- This car is twice as good (if not more) than the yellow shed I viewed in Nottingham. The two problems I see are the sunroof and the bodywork. Unfortunately, the money to make this car good and the price it's at dont add up in my world (Wing tip repair panels, wing door edge repair panels, lower rear wing repair panels before and after wheel arch, rear arches, rear valence, the roof ? and a full re-spay and whatever else you discover along the way of which there will be plenty). On saying that though, these are now rare cars now and if you simply must have a H120 then I guess you may have to just take what comes along - and if the Nottingham shed sold (he was asking £4000.00 for it) then this one will.
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Edited by - Mooresy on 15 Jul 2013 10:11:38 |
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Mooresy
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 23:23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Stig
Hi all and Hi Moresy. I am moving from a early 70s car (rapier) to a early 80s Ford which I am viewing Saturday. The car is solid, just sailed a MOT and looks fantastic. I know Ford is a bit more main stream, but parts are easier to acquire and this particular car has no hidden agenda with rust with hopefully years of life ahead of it. saying all this i have to actually see the car in the flesh which i will be doing this Saturday.
Please don't tell me its a Capri ! |
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arrocuda
United Kingdom
501 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 11:20:07
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quote:
Please don't tell me its a Capri !
I was thinking that too! Never had a Capri, nearly bought a 2 door Cortina once, but the guy wanted too much for it. Nearest I ever came to buying a Ford.
Anyway.... looks as though your suspicions were confirmed regarding the condition of the H120, which does suggest that the true price for a good one is around the £4k to 5k mark. The reserve is still on I notice even though it has made 2,500 in the bidding which suggests the guy is hoping to be taking bids around the £3k mark.
Personally... I think it's worth hanging on for the right car to come along whilst at the same time waiting to see how the guy gets on. If yours is the only offer on the table after everyone else has walked away, you might just get it for the right price.
Building the 'Mark II' fastback Rapier ('Arrocuda'). |
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Mooresy
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 19:17:19
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quote:
Originally posted by arrocuda
quote:
Please don't tell me its a Capri !
I was thinking that too! Never had a Capri, nearly bought a 2 door Cortina once, but the guy wanted too much for it. Nearest I ever came to buying a Ford.
I looked at one once, really good condition 2.0 litre. Then I drove it...
You needed arms like Jeff Capes to park it. it felt really heavy and lumbering.
No, I would'nt bother with the H120. It wants far far too much work for me. I see it as no different than the brown restoration project that sold in Stoke last year for £1000 (the one that had been in a garage since 1985), other than it had an MOT. Realistically it probably wants as much as the brown one and the white alpine in ebay at the moment with 18,000 miles. Too much work and not economically viable at any cost (to me). |
Edited by - Mooresy on 05 Jul 2013 19:19:05 |
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H120 on ebay
