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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 19:42:03
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TurboZed's post about steering boxes got me thinking about it again.
I need to do something about the worn steering box in my '68 fastback. It's not terrible but a new one would be much nicer.
Does anyone know of someone that can rebuild these properly (and good as new)?
The aussie version of the Hunter used a locally made unit - maybe these can be found?
Or maybe a new Paykan unit could be stripped and the inner column etc could be used?
It's left hand drive - could it work?
It appears that they still make them, see http://www.mstoos.com/enProducts21.html |
Edited by - 1922 on 12 Jan 2010 19:52:40 |
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 21:29:57
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Worth seeing if a group buy could be done? Are there any trade restrictions between here and Iran? I know we sold them a load of trains not long back.
I see they do a back axle too. I wonder if we can find out what ratios they are?
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
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bigt80
United Kingdom
1051 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 10:55:00
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Interesting find there 1922: problem is I don't think LHD ones could be adapted, but I could be wrong. Also, cars 67-71ish had adjustable steering column & I think this unit is different (box itself maybe same?) Must be someone who rebuilds them, so maybe parts from a new LHD could be used? More Q's than answers, but an interesting one to pursue.
As for back axle I expect they'd be 3.70's, although 3.89's were fitted to Hunter in UK, with a general trend for higher gearing since the 70's I imagine they'd have upped to 3.70. These 3.70's were fitted to auto Rapiers originally. Cheers. G. |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 23:46:40
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It's definately worth investigating, but buying from Iran could be tricky. There are so many Paykans still on the road in Iran that there must be a supply of service parts for them (oil filters, brake pads, brake drums, brake disks, ball joints etc ). Maybe there is a way we can benefit from it. I will see what I can find out.
A source of steering box parts and rear springs would be very welcome and I'd happily give up my adjustable steering column for a fixed with one with no wear. |
Edited by - 1922 on 14 Jan 2010 23:48:21 |
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 00:08:03
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Is the LHD steering box a mirror image of the RHD one, or is it just the steering arm part that is different?
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 14:18:01
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The casting of the box looks like a mirror of the right-hand-drive version (at least in the pictures - I've not seen one close up).
Assuming that the design hasn't changed in 40 years then it seems reasonable that the the inner column and the cage bit (that holds the recirculating balls) would be same. The shaft that comes out the bottom of the box might be the same.
Also, from memory I think the internals of steering box are shown in the workshop manual, so this is my next stop.
I will attempt contact with the manufacturer to see if there is anyway I could get my hands on one (and how much it would cost?).
I will also research the aussie Hunter - I think I read (in 'Cars Of the Rootes Group) that the aussie Hunter used a locally made (Chrysler Valiant?) steering box/column.
I've pretty much abandoned the steering rack idea, for the moment, as being too much work to do it properly. So I will research this and publish what I find.
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2010 : 00:46:17
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Thanks Derek, your a top bloke!
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2010 : 17:52:12
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This might be of some interest Derek. I got this pic off an ebay advert for a 1/2 made sunbeam fastback convertable conversion. I can grab details of the sellar if you think its worth contacting him for info about the steering.
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2010 : 12:05:43
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Hmmm interesting.
The steering rack is in front the suspension arms, which means that the track rods etc will be in front the crossmember. Normally Rapier/Hunter steering gear is behind. So either the steering arms on the struts have been reversed somehow or it's not using Rapier/Hunter struts.
I think that the black painted cross-member is not Rapier either - it would normally have engine mounts (but these may have been removed) and I think that maybe the lower arm pivot points are too far apart (from memory they are normally a few inches inboard of the chassis legs).
Maybe the extra home-brew crossmember at the front is for different engine.
I had considered a similar scheme using Ford Sierra or Ford Capri crossmember, suspension arms, struts etc but it seemed a lot of work so I never pursued it. There was also once an idea about using the whole front and rear subframes and engine from an XJ6 - but that's another story.
So yes - it would be interesting to hear what he has done. |
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2010 : 22:38:51
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I emailed the chap and he came back with this reply:-
"Jim,
I have not used the original engine with rack and pinion, but I cant see there being a problem.
you need to use a set up off a mk1 escort with offset top mounts.
Hope this helps. Dave."
So it looks like he has changed the whole front end. I expect that cross member is Mk1 escort then.
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 14:15:24
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I'll stick that one on my list of possible solutions.
It's easy to buy Mk1 Escort bits for rallying and racing, quick racks, springs etc etc so that could be a good solution.
No answer to my email to Iran - not that surprised.
I can't find any mention of Aussie hunters using different steering boxes - so I've no idea where I got that from.
Not given up yet - I will find a way to not have soggy steering! |
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 23:47:03
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quote:
Originally posted by 1922
I'll stick that one on my list of possible solutions.
It's easy to buy Mk1 Escort bits for rallying and racing, quick racks, springs etc etc so that could be a good solution.
No answer to my email to Iran - not that surprised.
I can't find any mention of Aussie hunters using different steering boxes - so I've no idea where I got that from.
Not given up yet - I will find a way to not have soggy steering!
I hope you do, its the only thing worrying me about rapier ownership 
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
Edited by - TurboZed on 12 Feb 2010 23:47:33 |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2010 : 15:51:40
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I have just learned why a left hand drive steering column is no use.
All the internals will fit, and it will get rid of the vague steering.
But you will have to learn to drive all over again as you will need to turn the steering wheel the wrong way!
The thread of the worm on the end of the column is the other way (left-hand thread instead of right-hand thread or vice-versa). In hind-sight this suddenly seems obvious 
So pursuing the Iran idea is not that useful as the other parts of the internals (the drop shaft and bearings) are repairable.
I have found an engineering company in Birminham named Kiley - Clinton that refurbish steering racks and steering boxes (see http://www.steering-racks.co.uk/). The guy I spoke to (Roger Clinton) used to work for Burman and sounds like he knows what he's talking about. They can repair everything except a worn worm, which is shame, but it's a start.
Next project - dismantle the steering box that's in the shed and see what's worn inside. |
Edited by - 1922 on 23 Feb 2010 13:48:10 |
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2010 : 22:50:40
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Wouldn't the worm be the most worn component in a worn out box?
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2010 : 14:08:09
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That was my worry.
The fork/shaft will wear and so will the bearings and repairing these will help.
I was hoping that they could metal spray or hard chrome the worm and recut it, or weld on a new one.
But I will know more when I have talked to them again, which I will do, when I have taken my spare steering box to bits.
I've decided to look again at the steering rack idea.
It's not possible to put one behind the crossmember because to get the angles correct it will be too close to the footwell and bell-housing.
It might be possible to reverse the steering arms and put a rack in front of the crossmember.
If the sump can be avoided it's then a matter of calculating steering arm angles to get a reasonable Ackermann angle (toe out on turns) which might need some custom made steering arms. Then I just need a way to connect the column to the rack without getting snagged up on the engine mounts. This also opens up the possibility of power steering using modern electric or hydraulic electric components (from the car breakers).
If this can be done without mucking about with the front suspension then it's not that much work. The main difficulty with the standard suspension is that the pivots for the lower arms are close together, this means the rack body has be equally narrow (if the steering arms on the rack are not the same length as the suspension arms you will get toe-in and toe-out as you go over bumps).
Tape measure, pencil and calculator will be out again this weekend
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TurboZed
United Kingdom
94 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2010 : 23:21:46
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Good luck! I don't know what else to say LOL
Regards,
Jim Gough
Looking for a fastback Rapier.... |
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Topic |
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Steering box
