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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 14:45:28
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Hi all,
In my previous postings regarding my SIV restoration and in particular the conversion to neg. earth,with alternator and removal of control box and fitting of new fuse box I received some useful input from Derek (1922) and Jannie (janmarine3).
However I still have a problem in that having checked earth connection etc etc I only get a 'chattering'noise from the solenoid when turning the key and it will not operate on the button at all.
I am wondering of I have incorrectly wires something.
Does anyone know to what the following wires previuosly from the control box should now be connected;
i)two blue/whites on shared spade terminal previously on A1 of the control box.I have put them onto the live side of the solenoid is this correct.
ii)one brown/white previously on A of the control box (from ammeter)
I have abandoned the ammeter,it apparently doesn't handle the current from the alternator too well,and joined the two brown wires,leaving the single brown/white (i) terminated and insulated.
Help with the above would really be appreciated.
Apologies for rambling on.
Regards
johnc |
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janmarine3
South Africa
286 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2011 : 20:10:48
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Hi John.
It has been a while since I did my alternator mod and I have forgotten the exact wiring setup but I will check tomorrow and get back to you.
One has to be careful when fitting a non-original fusebox because it is easy to place wires in the wrong places , especially if the wires are dirty and the colours faded etc.
What you can do with your starter problem to eliminate is to take off the wires comong to the solonoid, then take a temporily live direct from the battery positive to the solonoid, just touch it to the ingoing side and press the knob and see the result, then touch it direct to the outgoing starter wire and see the result. Just remember the starter will run continually if you give it a direct feed and keep it there.
You should now have a good indication of the condition of the starter , and wiring from the starter up to the solonoid because you have eliminated all the other circuitry from the ignition to the solonoid.
I will check if I can help you with the wiring ex the control box
Cheers
Jan. |
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janmarine3
South Africa
286 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2011 : 11:40:51
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John, I looked at my wiring and the only blue wire ( large ) I can see is connected to the starter solonoid, it looks like it comes from the ignition.I have no blue wires on the fuse box at all.The only whitish wire I see is connected to my fuse box left bottom. My wires are not the cleanest in town and I am not the best auto electrician in the west either, so I am not sure at all if this is correct for your setup, maybe somebody else can help you there with a confident answer.
Cheers
Jan |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 16:12:35
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Hi guys,
The plot thickens!
I've removed the starter for bench testing and find that after a couple of 'starts' without a problem it doesn't go.I've stripped it and find that whilst the brushes and springs are OK the commutator is worn to a concave shape and the copper strips have no undercut between them.This appears to be the root of my problem,does the team agree?
Next question for UK readers does anyone know a good supplier of reconditioned/exchange starter motors?
Regards
John |
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JPSH120
United Kingdom
1184 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 20:25:06
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quote:
Originally posted by johnc
Next question for UK readers does anyone know a good supplier of reconditioned/exchange starter motors?
Would have thought Speedy Spares would be worth a phone call. They are very knowledgeable.
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janmarine3
South Africa
286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2011 : 09:04:00
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I would think the commutator conditions could cause this , and it worsens when the armature has heated up.Even it is not the main cause of your problem you will only gain if you have the comm skimmed and undercut.Starter armatures also have a way of overcooking , especially if excessive cranking has occurred over a long period if the engine does not start quickly in general and when copper has overcooked it never returns to it's original state , causing all kinds of problems.So I think it would be good too to have someone check that the armature is worth it before repair costs.
I have seen new starters on ebay for 99 dollars , but for me it is not worth it because of the shipping costs.There are also high torque modern starters available for Rootes models on ebay, but they are expensive. An electronic distributor and ignition also helps because it is effective and also saves the battery , but all these nice to haves are expensive and make wives jittery . |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2011 : 10:11:56
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Thanks guys,
I've found a supplier,cragmay.co.uk,who can supply a new unit for £46.80 plus shipping,so that's the way I'll go.
I shall look forward to the old girl comming back to life after nearly 12 years.
Regards
John |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2011 : 15:49:59
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Yet more head scratching
New starter motor fitted,with new fully charged battery with connections only battery earth (neg),battery pos to solenoid and solenoid to starter,press solenoid button result click at starter and horrible smell of 'eggs'seemingly from battery.
Attempt number two;swap battery for one of dubious pedigree (holds full charge for limited time and runs out of 'puff'),result starter engages and turns engine but earth strap from block to body becomes very hot and smokes
What the hecks going on Any comments/advice would be most welcome before I tear out what little hair I have left. |
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janmarine3
South Africa
286 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2011 : 06:57:46
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Hi John,
I assume that your starter is the same as mine, being the invertor type without the solonoid on top, invertor meaning the bendix pulls in from behind the ring gear ?
the geez it sounds like the first battery is a dud ? is it 'new' like in brand new ? did you 'bench test' the starter before you installed it , this test is straight forward , batt pos on the one isolated pos pole and the earth on the body of the starter.(just make sure you hold it properly in the vice or similar because it jumps around from the torque )
The 2nd battery attempt sound ok , the earth strap might be too light , or loose connections or oily/greasy ? A person tends to forget that the engine rests on rubber mountings and proper earthing is nescessary , a starter draws very high current.
maybe you should wear a shower cap to save your hair , Rootes electrics are not the best in the west
Hope you come right mate.
Jan. |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2011 : 08:35:58
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Thanks Jan,
New battery is brand new but has actually been stored for nearly two years in anticipation of the big switch on.I'll take it to my local garage to get it checked by their tester thingie.
Your comments regarding earth strap reflect my thoughts so I think re-checking strap connections is worth a try and possibly finding another point of connection.At present it's connected to the body from the a bolt on the inlet manifold.
Good advice about the headgear but my wife may object to the use of hers.
Regards
John |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2011 : 09:26:30
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The eggs smell is the sulphur in the sulphuric acid in the battery. You get the smell when the liquid in the battery gets hot. This can from high loads, overcharging or an unwell battery.
Nothing wrong with adding a second earth strap - from the body to the block, cam chain cover or perhaps the bellhousing on one of the starter motor bolts.
Good luck with the battery !
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bigt80
United Kingdom
1052 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2011 : 10:16:04
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| Hi John, only just read your tale of woe. I'd certainly look for a better earthing point; plus batteries don't like just sitting around: they need using regularly else they tend to deteriorate. It may be just those two simple things and then you'll be up and running; interested to hear how you get on. |
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Topic |
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Electrical woes
