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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 17:18:43
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Hi all,
My restoration of AUE is moving on very nicely and the engine rebuild is complete but I have created something of a problem.I have fitted a replacement head (to suit the flat top pistons of the recon.block)this I think maybe a Hunter head and does not have any hose connection points,either for the heated inlet manifold or the heater.I am not concerned about the lack of the manifold heating but would like to connect the heater.The only way I can see of connecting both heater hoses is to the 'Y' piece on the water pump,but I do not think would create a flow and return arrangement.
Anyone got any ideas (without machining the head for hose connections)?
Regards
John |
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JPSH120
United Kingdom
1184 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 18:17:50
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Hi John,
I think you're half right.
Joing 1 heater hose to the Y piece below the pump would work, but like you say to get the 'flow' you then need to fix the other one on the other side of the pump (normally into the thermostat housing).
The H120 doesn't have the heated inlet manifold but from the photo's I have of std engines it looks like the hose from the heater goes to the manifold then onto the pump rather than a direct connection.
Hope that makes some sense!!
Jason.
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 19:19:17
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The twin Zenith Stomberg manifold (Rapier/Hunter GT/Humber Sceptre) is heated. There is a pipe at front and back of the inlet manifold - rear pipe goes to heater and the front pipe to the water pump (a pipe sticks up from the top of it).
On a Hunter engine the heater is fed from the top of of the water pump (via the inlet manifold, if heated) and the bottom of the thermostat housing (bolted to the front of the head).
Find a picture of a Fastback Rapier engine bay and you will see the pipe(s) running down the left side of the head just above the inlet manifold.
Hope this helps!
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 19:41:37
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Jason and Derek thanks for the input.
The manifold I have is for a single carb.,origionally for a Solex,and shall be fitted with a Weber 28/36 so unfortunately the 'straight'through heated twin carb.manifold isn't an option.
It looks like I'll have to do without the heater and enjoy drives on warm days only.
Regards
John |
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JPSH120
United Kingdom
1184 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 20:15:44
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There must be a way you can plumb in the heater using T pieces for example in the system to flow the water.
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Fastback Thomas
Belgium
423 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 16:22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by JPSH120
There must be a way you can plumb in the heater using T pieces for example in the system to flow the water.
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It has to be possible...
I'll have a look tomorrow at a humber sceptre MK3 (same engine) with a single solex...
Perhaps I can see how it's made there...
I like a car that looks normal but really knocks your socks off!! |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 10:32:53
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Hi all,
I've been giving this even more thought and have come up with a possible solution,providing the part is available.
By removing the temp.sender in the thermostat housing and replacing it with a T piece with a hose connection and a 'socket'for the temp.sender the correct flow/return would be created.
The part needed is a T with one 5/8inch UNC male end (to fit into the thermostat housing),two 5/8inch UNC female ends (to fit the temp.sender and a hose connector)alternatively the third end could have a hose connection for the heater return.
I think the sizes are correct but cannot verify them from the parts book,is there a possibility the thread is BSP?
I suspect this a bit of a tall order but if anyone has any thoughts on this idea or possible variations I would be welcome their input.
Regards
John
ps just had another thought,if I was able to find a suitable T piece would the introduction of 'cooled'water from the heater cause false readings on the temp sender and also delay opening of the thermostat
when water in the block/head is above max.temp.? |
Edited by - johnc on 25 Mar 2011 19:04:01 |
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Fastback Thomas
Belgium
423 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 19:05:10
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That could be a possible solution.
I knew it had to be possible, so after my exams at school I went to have a look at the Humber Sceptre MK3 I talked about yesterday.
As I taught it has a non-heated single carb manifold!
I took photos and if you look good you can see how it's made.
I think this is original...
The thermostat housing has an upper outlet, which go's to the radiator; and a lower inlet which goes (next to the rocker cover) and comes from the heater.
Then there is the hose that comes from the waterpump and goes to the heater. (with a heated manifold it just goes in at the front, comes out at the rear and goes to the heater.
Hope this helps...
I like a car that looks normal but really knocks your socks off!! |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 19:19:50
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Hi Thomas,
Thanks for the information,it seems to confirm the option of fittings a T piece is viable.
The real problem is going to be finding a suitable fitting.
Regards
John.
ps good luck with the exams |
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Fastback Thomas
Belgium
423 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 19:31:13
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John,
I've just got a small question..
I suppose the thermostat housing is different then on my pics?
How is it different?
I like a car that looks normal but really knocks your socks off!! |
Edited by - Fastback Thomas on 25 Mar 2011 19:32:05 |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 20:00:11
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Thomas,
The thermostat housing is directly on the end of the head and the top hose connection on the end of that with the outlet to the right.
The engine is basically that fitted to Series Rapiers although it does have a later head with Holbay shaped combustion chambers.
Regards
John |
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Fastback Thomas
Belgium
423 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 20:12:18
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So the thermostat housing is horizontally on the head? (just so I can imagine how it looks)
I'm thinking about all kind of things but can't come up with something...
P.S. Just did my last exam today. 
I like a car that looks normal but really knocks your socks off!! |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 19:05:24
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This is the fastback/Hunter water pump and thermostat housing. This is the same bits that Thomas's photo shows. One heater pipe connects the top of the water pump and the other underside of the thermostat housing (on the head side of the thermostat). I've put spot of red on connections.
The plumbing is different on a series car - something I didn't know before.
This is the "series" water pump and thermostat housing from the Series I-IV parts book.
You can see in this picture where pipes go on the series car:
The water to the heater flows through the head and out the connector 69.
I didn't know series cars worked that way.
There is no pipe fitting on the newer heads - but there are two blanking plugs in the back of the head - perhaps you could drill and tap one of these for a pipe fitting?
Number 2 is called 'Plug - Cooling hole - Rear' and number 4 is 'Plug - Rear' on this page from the '72 parts book.
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Edited by - 1922 on 26 Mar 2011 19:09:55 |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 21:43:55
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Hi Derek,
Thanks for all the info.
The Series heater diagram is missing from my parts book so that helps me with the rebuild as its 10 years since I took the car to bits and memory fades.
I'll have a look at the head and and see if I can change the cooler plug for a spare hose connector I have.
Regards
John
ps.The mystery continues,the head only has one very large 'allen keyed' plug in the centre at the rear.Heaven knows what the origins of this are!It looks like I'm back to the T option on the 'stat housing,just need to find a suitable fitting,a tall order I think. |
Edited by - johnc on 27 Mar 2011 11:24:59 |
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2011 : 18:28:47
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Just checked my Holbay head, that also has one large plug but with a square socket. My guess that it is there because they needed a hole there when the head was cast or machined.
No idea why the parts book shows two plugs
Everything should work well as long as you connect up on the head side of the thermostat - it might work otherwise but I assume there is a reason they connected it where they did.
Another possibility is to fit a Hunter type thermostat housing. The outlet pipe points the wrong way so you would need a custom made top radiator hose and heater pipe (something that the custom car builders must need all the time so should be possible).
I also have a genuine Rootes Sunbeam Rapier and Alpine Workshop manual, issued 1966, that covers Rapier III & IV and Alpine I to IV. Both the parts books and workshop manual are in in reasonable condition but a little grubby and worn. They are of little use to me (this is the first time I've used them!) - you can have them for the cost of the postage plus a few beers
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2011 : 20:32:52
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Thanks for the reply Derek,
I think I'll persue the 'T' option.
Incidentally do you know if the threads in the housings for the hose connectors and temp.sender are UNC or BSP? I don't have anything to check them against and as I'm in France all the local suppliers will only have that metric nonsense ,I shall have to find a supplier in UK who does mail order.
I have two copies of the w/m manual and my (1966)parts book is complete apart from heater pages which oddly are not listed in the index,I think heaters may have been optional extras,so I'll pass on your generous offer.
Regards
John |
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Topic |
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Heater connections?
