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 Wiring Guru required, Overdrive wiring.
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Commerlad

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  18:20:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you do fit a warning lamp it should be fed from C1 in either case.

Sometimes I think laterally, but then I have to get up!
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Mr A.the Hun

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  23:08:34  Show Profile  Send Mr A.the Hun a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Commerlad

If you do fit a warning lamp it should be fed from C1 in either case.

Sometimes I think laterally, but then I have to get up!



Hello, that's added to my confusion. My wiring diagram in WSM says from W2, is C1 a better more 'modern thinking' solution?
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pruyter

Netherlands
310 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2020 :  09:56:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To start with: WSM 124 doesn't show that the lead is coming from W2, what it shows is that the connection is made between the overdrive switch via the light switch to the warning lamp and then to earth. W2 is fed from the overdrive switch.
Making the connection between the warning lamp and C1 will work also, but why changing the original system which works? You have already had the experience of an wiring system which is not original at all which have caused you some confusion. So think about the next owner who might be confronted with a non original wiring. There is not any advantage to gain by making a connection with C1 although it will work.
Next thing I have to mention is that I made a mistake with the plug button in the dashbord. The confusion is caused by the fact that Rootes did fit a plug button when it regarded the Alpine and even my Tiger shows this plug button while a Tiger has never had an overdrive. Having been working rather much with Alpines I automatically assumed that Rootes would have acted consistent with their other cars which turns out to be not the case. Sorry for the confusion I have caused!

Regards,

Peter
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Mr A.the Hun

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2020 :  11:13:35  Show Profile  Send Mr A.the Hun a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pruyter

To start with: WSM 124 doesn't show that the lead is coming from W2, what it shows is that the connection is made between the overdrive switch via the light switch to the warning lamp and then to earth. W2 is fed from the overdrive switch.
Making the connection between the warning lamp and C1 will work also, but why changing the original system which works? You have already had the experience of an wiring system which is not original at all which have caused you some confusion. So think about the next owner who might be confronted with a non original wiring. There is not any advantage to gain by making a connection with C1 although it will work.
Next thing I have to mention is that I made a mistake with the plug button in the dashbord. The confusion is caused by the fact that Rootes did fit a plug button when it regarded the Alpine and even my Tiger shows this plug button while a Tiger has never had an overdrive. Having been working rather much with Alpines I automatically assumed that Rootes would have acted consistent with their other cars which turns out to be not the case. Sorry for the confusion I have caused!

Regards,

Peter



Yes Peter, thanks.
I appreciate the finer difference, but it was quicker to write it's connected to W2 as this is the only relay terminal that has any connection to the the warning light in the WSM diagram. Also as I understand it, it shows via the dotted line and note (A) that the Rapier and Alpine IV didn't involve the lighting switch.
And I ask the question, is it a more modern solution, because, whilst I can see it's different, I am interested in greater understanding, particularly from people with superior knowledge than me..
As you say I am working my way through the perils of non standard, 'creative engineering' and I think it makes everything twice as difficult and daunting (enge stront). The result is I want to stick either to, as 'standard' as possible or very importantly, sympathetic, inteligent and neat upgrade i.e. anything that makes it safer, more reliable, more usable, longer lived or fixes it when 'original' simply isn't available.
So I appreciate your concern, and value your input, it's all good.
Thanks again, everybody.
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Mr A.the Hun

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2020 :  11:20:15  Show Profile  Send Mr A.the Hun a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
My 'new' three position overdrive stalk has just arrived.
[side note] purchased from e.bay (1) my wife is a very bad influence and (2) it cost almost exactly what Mike 'parts God' Langley said it would cost.
The new correctly coloured wiring has already arrived, so just (still) waiting for my new ramps and the white warning lamp and I'll get on with it.
Again thanks everybody.
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Commerlad

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  15:56:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I said C1 as that would show a supply to the overdrive solenoid, If it is connected to W2 then that would show a supply to the relay but in the case of the later relay not that the relay had operated to supply C2 and then the overdrive solenoid.

Also if a lamp is fitted and lit then the overdrive is getting a supply, if this is lit at any point other than when in 3rd or 4th then stop as overdrive damage may ( is likely to ) occur.

Sometimes I think laterally, but then I have to get up!

Edited by - Commerlad on 28 Nov 2020 16:06:45
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pruyter

Netherlands
310 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  20:49:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just keep the wiring as explained in WSM 124 and all should be okay!

Edited by - pruyter on 28 Nov 2020 20:51:31
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Mr A.the Hun

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2021 :  11:41:56  Show Profile  Send Mr A.the Hun a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Hello everybody.
Postscript to reinstalling a recognisable Rootes overdrive circuit.
Thanks for everyones input.
It's taken a while due to waiting for new ramps, various other components, and a virus (not THE virus).
After testing the two? relays that were already on the car, (following the instructions posted, thank you) the older type passed but I didn't need it. The more recent one failed. I opened it up (suggestion posted, thanks) and it turned out to be the wrong type, close but no cigar..
The new correct relay appears to be made of unobtainium.
So I bought a new Lucas SRB111 and some electronic components (diode and resistor). I studiously followed a posting from the SAOCA by Thomas Hayden found using Google, converting the relay to what I required, and replicating the original.
I have completely rewired the overdrive, as per Rootes wiring diagram. Correctly coloured wires throughout, bullet connectors and spades as appropriate. With everything sheathed. The expensive e.bay three position stalk has replaced what turned out to be an Austin two position version. The stalk is actually Alpine but correctly wired (colours etc.) And I have 'chromed' the black Alpine stalk, using modelling chrome/silver leaf. It all works perfectly, protecting overdrive from 1st., 2nd., and reverse. And (what started the whole project off), 'direct drive' now means 'direct drive' and vice versa. The wiring on the firewall is significantly neater, plus the full amperage no longer comes through the stalk, as it had done with the massive bodge set up that came on the car. The only 'giveaway' is a small non standard resistor earthing the relay. I can't thank people enough for sharing their knowledge.
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Commerlad

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2021 :  11:22:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glad you got there in the end.

Sometimes I think laterally, but then I have to get up!
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Commerlad

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2021 :  16:50:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
See this topic for the reasoning behind my statement for positioning of warning lamp supply

http://www.sunbeamrapier.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2204

Sometimes I think laterally, but then I have to get up!
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